Rudd and Iran
Australian issues - - Posted on May, 15 at 7:32 pm by Ken L
I never expected to be enthusiastic about the new government’s foreign policy and they’ve given me no reason to revise my expectations. If anything, they’ve gone even further than I anticipated in following in the flawed footsteps of Howard and Downer (for example, by increasing their commitment to Afghanistan).
I did hope, however, that Rudd would be prepared to distance himself from the US demonisation of Iran and all the Western supremacist belligerence that goes with it, but it seems I’m going to be disappointed there too. Rudd is apparently hell-bent on outdoing even George W Bush in idiotic efforts to pointlessly antagonise Iran (and by extension, considerable parts of the Muslim world).
Yesterday this exchange took place on Sky News:
SPEERS:Just before I let you go, there is a report this morning that you are planning to take the Iranian President Ahmedinejad to the International Court of Justice for inciting genocide and denying the holocaust. Is that right?
PM:The Iranian President’s repeated extraordinary statements, which are anti-Semitic, and expressing a determination to eliminate the modern state of Israel from the map are appalling by any standards of current international relations. They are an incitement to international violence.
Now what we have said in the past is that we will take legal advice which the Attorney General is currently doing, in terms of whether there is a (inaudible) way forward here through the appropriate international legal mechanisms and we will study that advice carefully.
SPEERS: No decision made on that then?
PM:No I think the important thing is for the world community right now, to be absolutely united in their condemnation of the regime in Tehran for these sorts of remarks. It is not just, you know, hyperbole, from the bully pulpit of Tehran. It is the roll on effect across the Islamic world to those who listen to Iran for their guidance. I think this is dangerous stuff. The world community should unite against it, and as I said, on the matter you specifically raise, we will take careful and considered advice in terms of whether it is possible on an international legal front.
To the best of my knowledge, Rudd hasn’t added fluency in Farsi to his linguistic arsenal so I would be interested to know where we can find these ‘repeated extraordinary statements … to eliminate the modern state of Israel from the map’. They don’t seem to be reported on the internet; the best I can find are two or three statements, the proper interpretation of which is the subject of some argument, but which seem directed at the regime and not the state. If Rudd is going to drag world leaders to the International Court of Justice every time they say they wish a regime would disappear, he’s going to be a busy boy indeed. Perhaps he can show his bona fides by starting with George W Bush … or if that’s logistically difficult, how about John Howard?
Even if Ahmadinejad had made these ‘repeated extraordinary statements’, the notion that Australia has some duty or interest in the matter is absurd. If the Israelis are upset let them take him to the International Court. It’s going to be very depressing if Rudd matches his predecessor in telling other countries about their moral failings and (by implication) about the infinite superiority of ‘Western values’.
Posted in Australian issues |
May 15th, 2008 at 8:58 pm
Geez this is depressing.
Yes, the holocaust is a myth in the same way that Gallipoli is a myth. It is a historical event which has become the core for a popular belief or way of seeing the world. A sacred banner.
May 15th, 2008 at 9:28 pm
Krudd can’t be so uninformed that he doesn’t know what Ahmedinejad actually said, ie endorsing the sainted Ruhollah’s hope that the Zionist regime would be abolished.
That only leaves the possibility/certainty that he is, as Mad Mark sussed several years ago, the main amerikan suck-up in the labor party.Less primus inter pares than Krudd uber alles.
May 15th, 2008 at 10:57 pm
John Pre-emptive Howard ensured that Australia continues to be viewed as an arsehole nation by many others, especially all of asia. We seem chronically incapable of keeping our big bippie mouths shut on the world stage, nor our marauding military from their intractable invadophilia.
When will it ever stop? I’d held some hope that Rudd’s mob would be different, but no. As Mars says, this is just bloody depressing.
Did anyone notice in the Budget speech that Swan announced the govt’s approval for financing our Iraq commitment till at least December this year? So we’re not pulling out of Iraq in June, as Rudd promised, and as he often threatened Howard last year, we’re sort-of staying there indefinitely.
And still not one reason given as to why on earth we’re in Afghanistan at all, apart from protecting the world’s largest opium trade.
Don’t tell me we’ve got another friggin’ Howard maniac at the helm? Gimme a break!
May 15th, 2008 at 11:17 pm
Someone please tell Kevin to stop drinking the Kool-Aid. Seriously.
Anti-Semitic???
Jews have been in Iran for over 2000 years.
Outside of Israel, Islamic Republic of Iran has the largest Jewish community in the Mid East today. Of course over the centuries there have been good and bad times, but they are still there and they are officially recognised.
Iranian Jews have a seat in the parliament. They are free to worship in their synagogues. Interestingly enough, despite alcohol being banned (as it is in some other countries in the region), Jews in the Islamic Republic of Iran are allowed to have wine for their services.
“Anti-Semitic”?
Hardly, Kevin. You’re being a schmuck.
May 16th, 2008 at 1:20 am
Some effective points. And it’s good you offered evidence Ken that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s comments may have been taken out of context &/or mistranslated…but, i’m not going to play apologist for Ahmadinejad (nor do I believe anyone on this thread is).
I believe he has deliberately used ambiguous language in order to cover his own arse, whilst inciting fear, extreme nationalism & hostility towards Israel’s regimes in order to mobilise militants and attempt to garner increased political support from the Iranian public.
The tenor of his approach & the religiosity of his words, not to mention the mythology he refers to, all have a worryingly FEVERISH element to them.
IMO Iran is falsely being blamed for contributing to SOME incidents, but this regime, & the religious characters who oversee it, are far from being NICE GUYS. The Human Rights situation in Iran is evidence of such.
As for Rudd, I’m fairly comfortable w/ an approach that uses legal avenues to dissuade leaders from inciting violence & hate. Particularly if the legal battle is played out in an independent court that must assess the validity of the accusations…get to the heart of the definitions.
Provided Rudd recognises that GW Bush, Dick Cheney, certain Israeli leaders, and American/Australian religious & media figures are also using language that is threatening and may incite violence against Iranians and those in the Muslim community.
It’s really quite a minefield, and I’m a wee bit worried that once again we are seeing politicians taking stances that might be used as TROJAN HORSES to close down public debate/discourse…in order to protect the interests of THE FEW, particularly lobbyists & supporters of political parties, over the many. I’m seeing SIGNS of squeezing the life out of the internet, free speech everywhere.
It seems some of our EXPERTS believe that DIPLOMACY & freewheeling discussion won’t succeed in bringing PEACE. Or maybe certain individuals won’t make enough profits from goodwill? I reckon they are very addicted to the idea of A GATHERING STORM followed by a WAR BOOM. I hope our government isn’t.
For now, I’d prefer to give Kevin Rudd the benefit of the doubt and see where this is heading. Tho, as everyone above mentions, there are worrying aspects to this move…add to that the delay in moving Aussie soldiers out of Iraq.
Worrying, particularly, when Tony Blair is trying to convince all of us IGNORANT SHEEP that we should start BELIEVING in myths & superstition in order to make a stand against…well, myth & superstition from THE EAST.
“The East is rising. At the least it will demand parity with the West and perhaps more. But what values will this daunting new world use to guide it? I believe [that] in this world of rapid globalization where power is shifting away from its traditional center in the West, the world will be immeasurably poorer, more dangerous, more fragile and above all more aimless - I mean without the necessary sense of the purpose to guide it on its journey - if it is without the strong spiritual dimension.”
Thnx for the lessons on moral development Tony. Enjoy the money & the memory of the dead in Iraq…the INVASION we had to have.
Anyway, I’d much rather a battle in the courts between powerful characters over bombing raids anyday.
(Hmmm…I wonder if my childhood swimming in phonics lessons has caused this tortured syntax problem? )
May 16th, 2008 at 1:45 am
The following makes for good reading, unless you have your bedroom covered in Phoney, I mean Tony, Blair posters & proudly display on your bed the Blair matching pillow & Doona cover set…&/or plan to remain Western-Centric in your views of the World for a good long time yet:
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Japan/JE15Dh01.html
(Blair’s Christian ‘challenge’ to the East
By Masayuki Tadokoro, asia Times Online, May 15, 2008)
Now where did i put my plasticine Church of England…ahhh here it is, right next to my paper mache Richard the Lionheart shield. Now where’s that bloody wooden sword? What’s that darling? You gave it as a gift to which Saudi Prince? Oh…ok then…as long as Queenie thought it was the right thing to do. Hmmm…so now what am i meant to use? Yes of course…the samurai sword i got as a diplomatic gift. ONWARDS CHRISTIAN SOLDIERS!!!
May 16th, 2008 at 9:24 am
I caught up with Professor Finkelstein’s opinion from within the secured borders of the U.S.A. And his family being Holocaust survivors,adds some momentum to who it is that have been treated unfairly.I have also been to the sites that are suggesting the gas chamber stuff didn’t happen.Regretfully ,for me,it is too costly to buy literature on these matters that fill in the blanks.Like the word Holocaust,and does it actually mean gas chamber realities.Finkelstein doesn’t come across as a liar to me,and it is plainly obvious that many dollars have been made out of the Story of Persecuting the Jew.In Australia we have sites like Crusader Rabbit.com that keep their own peculiar Right wing buzz with a Zionist calling card.Whereas,I am absolutely sure there are divisions amongst that calling card.And if the Leader of Iran is making unacceptable noises,then everyone that has an opinion about that troubled area has also.Its a time warp,that continues like a fever that cannot be broken.I think Israelis could have an entirely different influence in that area,as the intellectual transference of science stuff and culture,to integrate ,more wisely Iran’s rightful place in the world.The problems with Palestinians etc. hasnt reached a simple set of words that are disarmingly acceptable,reliable,flexible,and always meaningful from the Israeli way of governing.Having people wait in long queues to pass between the two areas may still be necessary on Israel’s part,but it could be a lot friendlier,a lot more profitable for non-Israelis and even educational so queue waiters dont waste their time.Start by beautifying the walk throughs,I say,and pay the Palestinians to do it! When one considers what can be said anywhere at sports meetings of international type,well what is the problem!? I was disgusted completely,of how he was treated in the U.S.A. He seemed completely unfazed by that,which as a character strength isn’t something detrimental.Rudd is on a loser.
May 16th, 2008 at 9:55 am
“President George Bush used a visit to Israel today to denounce Democratic offers to negotiate with America’s enemies in the Middle East as comparable to appeasement of Hitler.”
(Ewen MacAskill and Suzanne Goldenberg Washington guardian.co.uk, May 15 2008)
This guy loves to get real low when crawling for Jewish support. I can imagine any self-respecting Floridian & New Yorker w/ an ability to whinge in Yiddish just cancelled their vacation flight to Texas & took a hot, hot shower.
Luckily we’ve got The Daily Show & Colbert Report to provide us w/ the SANITY. I realised last night that’s where I get most of my “down-to-earth’ news analysis from.
Ok, let’s look at the development of the Air Force under Hermann Boring Bush’s rule:
When I first joined the US Air Force, its mission statement was straightforward: to fly and fight. The recruiting slogan was upbeat: the air force was “a great way of life” and the Reserve Officers’ Training Corps program I enrolled in was the “gateway to a great way of life”. Mission statements and slogans are easy to poke fun at and shouldn’t, perhaps, be taken too seriously. That said, the people who develop them do take them seriously, which is why they can’t be ignored.
Consider the air force’s new slogan: “Air Force - Above All.”
Okay, I admit it’s catchy, even cute, if, that is, you can get past the “high ground” conceit and ignore the Germanic uber alles overtones. Its literal meaning is obvious enough and it does fit with the air force’s most basic precept, that mastery of the air means mastery of the ground.
and
in this country. Two shocking days excepted - December 7, 1941, at Pearl Harbor (where my uncle dodged aerial strafing at Schofield barracks), and September 11, 2001, in New York City and Washington - the skies have always been friendly to us, even the repository of our hopes and dreams.
When fighter jets scream overhead, our first thought isn’t “death”, it’s display. We look up in curiosity or wonder; we don’t panic and run for our lives. We expect the opening of a sporting event or aerial acrobatics, not the arrival of “precision guided munitions”.
As a result, we have trouble realizing that our ability to soar “above all” and rain death from the skies generates resistance and revenge, rather than awe and retreat, or submission and rapprochement. We marvel that our enemies just don’t get the message - but our signals are mixed, and our receivers flawed.
Flying and fighting so far above it all has proven deceptive indeed. It leaves us with little idea of the new realities we are creating down below, and blind to the disturbing inequities and resentments generated by our global/galactic/cyber power.
It turns out that the higher you soar - the more “above all” you perceive yourself to be - the less likely it is that you’ll understand the little people beneath you, and the more likely it is that those same “little people” will resent being dominated. And the solution to that problem lies not in dominating the stars or some other higher physical realm, but in looking within to a higher moral realm. “Above All” in moral courage - now there’s a slogan toward which I’d willingly soar.
(The US: Your masters of the universe
By William J Astore May 9, 2008
William J Astore, a retired lieutenant colonel (USAF), has taught at the Air Force Academy and the Naval Postgraduate School. He is the author of Hindenburg: Icon of German Militarism (Potomac Press, 2005).
————-
Has Bush got chutzpah or what?
Here’s a link to one of my fave comedians & writer/directors…you’d think he was talking to the Jewish community after they’d just met GW Bush:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Pt8Nk95Yfk&feature=related
(Woody Allen - Deconstructing Harry)
May 16th, 2008 at 10:33 am
These claims against Iran are discussed at length on the blogosphere http://historymike.blogspot.com/2006/05/on-juan-cole-christopher-hitchens-feud.html and it seems the anti semitic statements were not made. There has been no holocaust denial. Interestingly in Iran three religions are recognised Islam,. Christianity and the jewish religion. They are all considered to be people of the book and as such are entitled to university education and all the other benefits of Iran whatever they may be. Iran has the largest jewish population in the middle east. Rudd is being a pig in the minefield for the US on this matter and should back off. Many in the US are desperate to bomb Iran back to the stone age. We shouldn’t be helping in this madness.
And as he and most of Australia’s pollies rush to congratulate Israel on its birth 60 years ago why is no-one asking what happened the to people who lived in Palestine before Israel was imposed on the map?
They were dispossessed just as Australia’s Aborigines were and yet in Parliament Rudd apologises to our aborigines and eloquently asks how would we feel if it happened to us. How is it that his empathy doesn’t translate to Palestine and how is it that he doesn’t ask the same question?
May 16th, 2008 at 10:45 am
Agree completely, the way in which Ahmadinejad was set up to be ritually insulted at Columbia University was disgraceful.
Yeah, ‘America’s enemies’ are constantly making bellicose territorial claims against neighbouring states, withdrawing from the UN, building huge armies that can wage wars of aggression and ranting about the need for lebensraum. The parallels with Hitler are uncanny.
But at least he gave up golf out of respect for the families of Americans serving in Iraq.
God the man is an embrrassment.
May 16th, 2008 at 11:00 am
See that’s what worries me! That the debate (what little there is of it among the news-junkies and chattering classes) is not based on solid ground.
Our media simply parrots the opinions of our English-speaking politicians (and belligerent Americans) without question. They are an echo chamber broadcasting to a nervous audience.
Can we so readily a accept their interpreted sound-bites of a POLITCAL speech given in Farsi and translated by… well, someone? In light of the MSM’s actions of the past decade, why would we?
May 16th, 2008 at 9:23 pm
too true…but change is gradual. The Chess Players are getting the message, preferable for them to make certain adjustments & clean up their own mess than have an empowered mass rise up, slay them & create chaos.
The various heirarchical structures will remain far into the future, mutating & adapting to the volume of the squall emanating from the people & the newcomers to each level…& of course the possibility for taking opportunities that tempt each.
It’s a RUTHLESS GAME Mars…& that’s why so many turn to religion, to saviours…the sense of powerlessness & need for security & belonging can be overwhelming for some. And in the process they succumb to a form of brainwashing. But in turn, there are those who have more control & influence who might use such systems for good…to promote sharing & peace & altruism. Use the flock for better purposes. I think Rudd is more along these lines. Same as Peter Costello.
It’s the Busheviks & their evangelical cronies & pyramid makers that I more worry about…the big earners w/ greed, manipulation & deceit as mainstays in their bloodline & social environment…those who infect, cause fever, construct wars…& reap the rewards of such. An elite that lives on supremacy mountain…and most everyone else is a tool…a disposible unit…a consumer…an potential for profit. Exploitable.
Fortunately, there are those who recognise them for what they are. Often those who have little need for religion…or props…characters who require little to exist…who accept that in displaying courage & fearlessness they might assist the CHANGE MAKERS.
They recognise the randomness & potential ugliness of the evolutionary system…the callousness, whilst remembering that personifying a natural way is merely a cathartic act. A strategy to try & stop the world from wobbling.
They also accept that LIFE can be seen as a beautiful thing…it’s what you make of it. But sometimes you have to stand up against others in order to prevent them from ruining it.
They try to flow on a river of knowledge…& use their imagination to express ideas & entertain. Awestruck by the mutability of things & entropy & the contradictions of existence. They prefer to observe, analyse, make sense of, express, educate, create…all part of their curious nature. Usually OBSERVERS than PARTICPANTS in the GAME. Sometimes DEFINERS.
Occasionally they join the fray if they perceive the insane have escaped the asylum & are doing untold damage…& are running the carnivale/show.
Hopefully we’ve had a butterfly effect that will provide positive karma, but one can never truly know because of the variables & time involved. I guess it really is about HOPE.
And then recognising the moment it’s time to stop playing, fighting, exposing…leave it up to the professionals…& return to THE HOME &/or FRIENDS/FAMILY that we felt the need to protect…those who motivated the urge to PARTICIPATE in the first place. The sense of losing them turns the curious, observing character into a warrior.
Like I said, TIME FOR A CHANGE…time for the CHANGE MAKERS to help the old CHESS PLAYERS to clean up their mess.
Hopefully Rudd & Obama are CHANGE AGENTS. For the better. And the insane will be returned to the asylum. Or re-educated.
You’re quite a warrior Mars…& educator. I salute you.
N’