So how many indigenous people do you know anyway?
Uncategorized - - Posted on February, 16 at 11:33 pm by Ken L
If the last two weeks of blog discussion about the apology to indigenous people have served no other purpose, they have proved beyond argument that mainstream blog commenters commenters on mainstream blogs like those run by News Ltd are not representative of the whole Australian population.
Why do I say this? Well because it seems that virtually everybody who comments on these blogs has either ‘worked with’ indigenous people (whatever that means) or lived in towns with substantial numbers of Aboriginal citizens or has a wide circle of Aboriginal acquaintances. And since this is self-evidently atypical of Australians generally, these blog commenters would seem to be a rather unusual group.
Indeed many of the commenters go out of their way to draw attention to their unique expertise in indigenous matters. “I don’t know if any of youse guys has ever met a real live Aborigine,” go the typical comments, “but I lived in a NT township for 58 years/worked with indigenous people all my life so I think I know a bit more about things than all you dickheads living in Mosman.” Valiantly suppressing my innate scepticism, I can only conclude that the readership of the big media blogs consists almost exclusively of residents of the outback and retired social workers.
One thing that stands out of course is that despite the deep understanding of indigenous affairs that these people have acquired, their personal opinions are wildly diverse and contradictory. So there’s another valuable outcome … we have a great case study demonstrating how useless individual lived experiences are as a basis for valid universal conclusions. It will be great to use as an example in teaching introductory research principles.
But the aspect that strikes me so forcefully is this: These self-proclaimed experts on indigenous affairs say they have been employed to deliver government programs, or they have observed indigenous people, or they are in a position to canvass the views of Aborigines. Whatever the claim, it is made to legitimate and add weight to the opinions of the commenter, regardless of their point of view or political affiliation.
There is, however, one thing that struck me about the vast majority of these comments when I reflected on them this morning, and that is the way they unconsciously adopted the perspective that indigenous people are ‘the other’. In other words, most of these commenters (some well-meaning and some not) still view Aborigines as a minority group who are to be managed, or assimilated, or engineered, or something … anything but treated as genuinely autonomous people who should be left alone to work out their own destiny. And I might be unfair here, but I can’t recall a single comment where the writer wrote as if indigenous people are genuine equals who deserve the same automatic respect and consideration as white Australians. Virtually every comment still takes it for granted that indigenous people are some kind of inferior group who need to be subjected to a program of some kind by us superior white folk.
Apology or no, we still have a very long way to go.
Posted in Uncategorized |
February 17th, 2008 at 4:34 am
Hear hear!
One of the few things that bugged me about Rudd’s speech the other day was the call for “mutual respect, mutual resolve and mutual responsibility”. Surely it should have been “shared respect, shared resolve and shared responsibility”. Aren’t we’re all Australians?
February 17th, 2008 at 6:29 am
I hardly know any and I have no real opinion on the matter. I do think however that the vast divide between the groups will be daunting to tackle. Based upon my years in America, concerted programmes have not diminished the feeling of seperateness that exists. In America the native Americans are much more segregated and you don’t come into contact with them much.
February 17th, 2008 at 11:34 am
I have blogged on indigenous issues and am a frequent commenter. I agree with some of your remarks but cannot accept that individual lived experiences are not important. We certainly can’t just rely on academic research or the secondhand.
The rash generalisation about virtually every comment does not help your argument. It wildly overstases your case and undervalues the diversity of blog audiences.
The credibility or expertise of bloggers and commenters is an important issue. It is useful to know something of the context of contributions and the point from which they were viewed and formed. The anonymity of many onliners allows them to assume the role of heckler rather than open participant in the political debate.
The role that non-indigenous people can play in meaningful reconciliation is a much more pressing issue. A hope for autonomy is laudable but begs the question as to how non-indigenous people can play a part in achieving meaningful reconciliation.
February 17th, 2008 at 1:52 pm
Ken, thanks for putting into words something that’s been subconciously bugging me all week. I’ve noticed that when overseas people accuse Australians of being racist, they use our attitudes towards Aboriginals as part of the argument. And if the e-mail circulating among the Liberal Party is any indication, we do indeed have a very very long way to go.
http://tinyurl.com/2rkxdt
February 17th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
Kevin my post was aimed at commenters on ‘the big media blogs’, viz places like Andrew Bolt and Blogocracy, and I agree I could have made that clearer (now done).
However I plead guilty to hyperbole … it’s a legitimate rhetorical device in a blog :-).
February 17th, 2008 at 7:16 pm
You said, “… commenters (some well-meaning and some not) still view Aborigines as a minority group who are to be managed, or assimilated, or engineered, or something … anything but treated as genuinely autonomous people who should be left alone to work out their own destiny.”
This would be ideal in an ideal world. There are a couple of problems with the idea, though.
Firstly, We Europeans have almost destroyed the indigenous culture and those who are left have been corrupted by booze, tobacco and sugar! The responsibility IS partly ours (Whire Australia) to help in the healing.
Secondly, there is a rather perverse group of Australians who keep taking us to court, or to the court of public opinion, and insist that we, as White Australians MUST fix all the problems. Should we fail to take action then we will be subjected to the same international treatment which is now striking sheep farmers for failing to solve the “mulesing” controversy or even treated the same as South Africa during the Apartheid years, even though it is the indigenous people themselves who instigated the separate society and the permit system.
No, I don’t know what the answers are, but I do know a lot about the problems. I do know the Communities are not the whole answer - unless they give up guns and Toyotas!
February 17th, 2008 at 7:19 pm
Excuse me Ken, but your remarks “Virtually every comment still takes it for granted that indigenous people are some kind of inferior group who need to be subjected to a program of some kind by us superior white folk,” strangely overlook Jon Fox’s surprising reply to my comments on the ‘Apology’ which were picked up and broadcast on his FM radio show in America:
Jon Fox Says:
February 13th, 2008 at 6:18 pm
Lady Madonna,
“Your comment came in as I was playing Rudd’s speech on my show. As a talker, sometimes the words of others are beautiful things to have. I read your comment on air between Rudd’s and Nelson’s audio. I thank you. Just the segue I needed.”
However, virtually everyone on this blog took no notice of this exchange whatsoever, instead prattling on endlessly and absurdly about the weirdo comments of just one blogger, Jinmaro, who may or may not have held biased or distorted opinions … but whatever the case the entire historical Apology was overlooked here by an avalanche of infantile and uninformed spatting and catcalling over this ant hill-sized pile of irrelevant rubbish whilst nothing of substance on this topic, except my comments whether right or wrong, were injected into this blogosphere at all. Amazing!
So just about everyone here completely missed the point and waffled and whined as the whole earth-shattering significance of Mr Rudd’s ground-breaking speech passed them by like Halley’s Comet.
Future blog archive researchers will not bother to search the Road to Surfdom’s archives on the historical day of the great apology because there’s nothing there to bother with. Jon Fox and I contributed, but hardly anyone else did. This used to be an intelligent blog.
February 17th, 2008 at 10:05 pm
Within limits, Ken. But point taken.
February 17th, 2008 at 10:09 pm
Conveniently ignoring the years of previous comments on this blog supporting precisely the act Rudd did, and the indigenous cause in general.
Oh to be so superior and have stink-free shit.
Meh.
February 17th, 2008 at 10:11 pm
What was the comment, Lady Madonna?
February 17th, 2008 at 11:47 pm
So just about everyone here completely missed the point and waffled and whined as the whole earth-shattering significance of Mr Rudd’s ground-breaking speech passed them by like Halley’s Comet.
wtf?
don’t presume that peoples comments comprise their complete opinion or understanding of the issue. It’s just the bit we choose to remark on.
I doubt that anyone who comments here is deluded enough to think that ‘our’ opinions matter but that doesn’t make them less valauble.
February 18th, 2008 at 12:36 am
I think the apology was not glossed over by everyone. It seems to be very well covered across the blogosphere. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t comment on it - it was a great first step but there are many more before aboriginies can even begin to think of self-determination.
What about the title of this post? How many indigenous people do people actually know? I’ve met several hundred, but I would say I only know - or am friends with - a handful. But I thank myself for those friendships… they have given me a much greater understanding of history and the world.
February 18th, 2008 at 9:07 am
Lady Madonna, your comment is just about identical to Jinmaro’s, except hers wasn’t so chockers with personal egotism. Sorry we didn’t notice how brilliant and famous you are! In America!!!
February 18th, 2008 at 9:38 am
Ken,
I would apply the same ’standards’ to comments on “big media blogs” and to all bloggers and commenters. I have commented on Bolt and blogocracy, which are the extremes in rational discussion.
I am now very wary of starting threads about aboriginal issues or multiculturalism on sites such as ONLINE Opinion because of the racist venom which often results. We are all inclined to share our ignorance and prejudices, but for some it’s a very steep downhill incline.
February 18th, 2008 at 4:22 pm
When commenting:
“…can’t recall a single comment where the writer wrote as if indigenous people are genuine equals who deserve the same automatic respect and consideration as white Australians. ”
Support demand for writers all to identify themselves either as Aboriginal or not ?
Wrap this within claims of opposition to racism ?
Such behavior false packaging, so as to promote racism as acceptable.
Classification of words and ideas by race is only important to racists.
Seek excuses to ignore, or to promote, ideas which suit or do not suit.
Minute considerations of the irrelevant.
Debate is about the substance of ideas, of solutions for problems, not the race, religion or sex of the author.
Are presentations of academics or other specialist standings based upon substance, or qualified by race ?
For many race is the only measure of substance, and they certainly possess short memories.
Busily modifying our world backwards to “1984″ where serious approach to issues, where thinking, must be appropriate…
Is it time to burn books again ?
.
February 18th, 2008 at 4:56 pm
Who, of course, set the world standard for treatment of their indigenous, and race relations in general.
February 18th, 2008 at 6:03 pm
Some angst amongst the ilks since Nov.07.
February 18th, 2008 at 7:12 pm
Looks like this blog has been colonised by feminist hating, racist bovver boys. So what else is new?
February 18th, 2008 at 7:37 pm
Comment deleted by Ken_L.
Jinmaro if you wish to comment on events at another blog please do so there.
February 19th, 2008 at 9:18 pm
It’s the feminist hating that really leaps off the page. Take Helen.
Please!
Ba-doom tish!