Historical analogies

Rightwingers say the darndest things - - Posted on August, 25 at 2:49 pm by Ken L

I was going to write something about Bush’s historical reflections the other day, in which he compared Iraq to Vietnam, but decided there’s no point. Plenty of others have already done it.

The incident has served a useful purpose however because it’s illustrated yet again how irrational is the world view of the neo-con maddies. Here for example is blogger and sometime radio show host Dean Barnett:

… we could have stayed the course in Vietnam until the South had become sustainable, just as we had done in South Korea a couple of decades earlier.

Now I don’t want to take issue with the bit about Vietnam, except to say that it depends on a set of heroic assumptions for which there is little empirical evidence. No surprises there then, the neo-cons have established time without number that they believe in allowing hope to triumph over experience.

No, the bit I wanted to highlight is the comment about Korea. Reviewing the history of that sad peninsular:

- The North tried to reunify the country and over-ran most of the South;
- The UN declared this was a bad thing and organised a multi-national (mainly US) force to help the South, which sent the North packing and threatened to defeat it entirely;
- The Chinese decided this wasn’t in their interests, and sent troops to help the North, who kicked the UN forces out of the place and nearly over-ran the South again;
- A truce was finally declared with the opposing forces more or less where they’d been before the whole mess began;
- The US has had troops stationed there ever since;
- North Korea has become a rogue state; it’s (probably) developed nuclear weapons and remains the source of endless tension in the Asia Pacific. The cost of containing North Korea for 50+ years must amount to tens of billions of dollars and as of August 2007, there is no end in sight to the regional instability that the situation in Korea is causing.

Yet Dean Barnett apparently thinks this is a tale of triumphant achievement for the US of A. He thinks they should have done the same thing in Vietnam (disregarding the fact that the fighting in Korea lasted 3 years as opposed to 30 in Vietnam if you count the initial war to kick out the French). Sure Dean, that would have been a terrific idea. Your country could have had 50,000 troops strung around Saigon to this day while the North Vietnamese tested the nuclear weapons that they’d been developing for the last 30 years, probably in consort with their buddies in North Korea. That would have been a brilliant outcome and I understand completely why you regret that it never happened.

Oh wait, actually I’m being unfair to ol’ Deano. He doesn’t think that’s what would have happened at all.

North Vietnam was about to break, until America’s will broke first.

Yep, it was all the fault of those damn liberals and their lack of will. If only they’d hung tough for another few months, Hanoi would have run up the white flags and begged for a good dose of yankee capitalism.

Needless to say there’s no empirical evidence for Dean’s fantasy. It’s just another instance of wishing facts into existence to accommodate his preferred view of the world.

So where does that leave the USA in Iraq, in Dean’s Second Life fantasy? Well staying there pretty much forever of course.

… we are in a war that is open-ended. It’s a disquieting reality, but it’s reality nonetheless. Shrinking from it won’t make the situation any more tolerable.

‘Disquieting’. Yeah, Dean, I think that’s a reasonable description.

I wish the MSM would start trying to nail Howard and Rudd on this stuff but foreign policy no longer seems to interest our local hacks. They’re too busy pursuing the really important issues, like who’s editing Wikipedia and how many MPs can pole-dance on Glenn Milne’s head.

I hope the gap year kids in our army insist on getting proper body armour.

Posted in Rightwingers say the darndest things |

5 Responses to “Historical analogies”

  1. The Virgin Mary Says:

    It’s called splitting hairs. Vietnam. Iraqnam. Koreanam. Next is Iran-nam. What’s the diffo?

    They’re all definied by stupidity. The lunatic human race incapable of learning from history. Why do we even build libraries if no-one ever goes there, reads there, or learns from there?

    I’ve given up after reading 30,000 books in my life. No-one else reads anything except their horoscope, the sports page or the TV program.

    Cenotaphs stand on every street corner in Ozland, facing eternal idiocy, knowing there’ll be many more such glowing statues to failure in the future.

    The masses will swirl around on Anzac Day, blowing bugles, marching for what they know not. And brainwashing their young with heroic tales of fabricated frogshit. As it has been, is today, and always will be.

    My son once cried: “Father forgive them, for they know not what they do.” And, after 2,000 years, nothing’s changed.

  2. Brokenleg Says:

    Does this Dean fellow contribute to wikipedia by any chance?

  3. amphibious Says:

    Even as the ironies threaten to overwhelm the current US administration, it hard to believe that they are now aping the Nazis with the “knife-in-the-back” theory for the defeat in Vietnam. Thus Hitler & his ilk explained Germany’s defeat in WWI, lost in Berlin/Washington, not the Western Front/DMZ.
    Given that rhetoric hasn’t been taught for a couple of generations, it’s hardl;y surprising that the general populace doesn’t notice how arguments are misframed & becuached.
    To argue about how they got out of Vietnam, rather than how they got IN is too apposite to the present situation in Eyerak.
    Reichstag Fire/Gulf Tonkin/WMB so what else is new?

  4. Seeker Says:

    Speaking of historical analogies, and rightwingers saying the darndest things, check out this truly dangerous frothing-at-the-mouth loony. (Thanks to John Quiggin’s site.)

    http://watchingthewatchers.org/news/1290/conservative-group-calls-bush

  5. Christine Keeler Says:

    Heh. Korea is indeed an apposite example from a number of perspectives, not least of which is the fact that China managed to “sneak” (!) 100,000 troops across the border and the Americans knew dick-all about it.

    Reference the Battle of Chosin Reservoir, wherein the 1st Marine Division was sent packing (”It’s not a retreat. We’re simply advancing in another direction.”) somewhere on the intertubes.

    Oh, and Republican Eisenhower was elected on a platform of ending the war.

    As for draft-dodger GWB lecturing us on Vietnam. My head’s spinning.

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