Sons of Edward Teller
Australian issues, Science - - Posted on June, 14 at 11:25 pm by Ken L
I don’t know if people watched The 7.30 Report tonight. I actually managed to keep 20 minutes of it down because no Liberal politician appeared bellowing “Union bosses!!!!” every second sentence. And also because the lead story was genuinely scary.
There’s no link yet, I’ll check tomorrow if I remember. The thrust of the story was this: back in the good old days when Malcolm Fraser was PM and John Howard was that geeky guy he made Treasurer after Phil Lynch had to resign, Australian scientists at Lucas Heights were developing new uranium enrichment technologies that were right up there with the what the Europeans were doing at the time. Then Bob Hawke got elected PM and the new government closed the whole thing down, albeit after the scientists kept the program going for a couple more years by calling it something else.
The scary bits were the interviews they did with a couple of these old boffins, one of whom is involved with a private company that may or may not be going to get support from Howard’s mob to kick the whole thing off again (which was the point of the story). In these interviews you saw two bitter old men who 20+ years after the event were still sulking that the bastard lefties had taken their toys away from them.
Their gripe seemed to be that the Labor Government had destroyed all this lovely technology that was being developed for Australia’s own good. Neither of them seemed to feel any embarrassment at relating how they had come up with devious excuses to keep the research going until 1985, even though they were defying the clear objectives of the elected government.
Most telling line was when one of then sneered at the way the research had been stopped ‘for ideological reasons’. Hell yes, perish the thought that a government should let ideology influence decisions about uranium enrichment! Science of course is an ideology-free pursuit, we all know that … although perhaps someone should have explained it to Edward Teller and J Robert Oppenheimer.
It doesn’t come as any surprise that some scientists - or any other variety of public servant for that matter - should have actively sought to subvert the considered policy of the government. The frightening thing is that these blokes feel free to talk about it openly and few people are likely to even see anything objectionable about their attitude or behaviour.
Posted in Australian issues, Science |
June 15th, 2007 at 4:39 am
Oh give me a bucket. “Considered government policies” in relation to science? Yeah right.
If this was some businessman boasting about how he got around government regulations to come up with something innovative… but he doesn’t have the white coat label attached to him, so he gets the different moral frame. The whole day-to-day aim of business is to get around the regulation of “considered government
policies”.
The “boffin” mentioned has a right to be miffed. Nuclear science and engineering in Europe is world class - believe it or not have out classed the Americans until recently (at least until their new spallation source comes online). And I’m talking science, not making weapons.
Need an example? The tabbaco industry has wiped out more people than the cumulative total of all nuclear accidents, weapons etc Or perhaps the car industry?
Bah.
Disclaimer: young “Boffin” who due to “considered government policies” in science can’t find an interesting job in Australia and instead lives quite happily downriver from at least 3 nuclear reactors.
Disclaimer 2: no I didn’t see the program. I just no tolerance anymore for this kind of rubbish.
June 15th, 2007 at 10:21 am
Ghastly old boors weren’t they? Surely what they did was illegal ? Could they have their pensions taken away for such illegal(?) activities?
June 15th, 2007 at 12:44 pm
Apparently the private company involved has announced its intention to put a proposal to the gummint to build enrichment plants in Qld and SA.
After the 7.30 report last night I thought this might quietly die like the 4 corners thing on rendition and torture, but they’re certainly talking about it in Qld today.
Caboolture is alert and alarmed.
June 15th, 2007 at 1:09 pm
No I don’t think it was illegal. ANSTO convinced the Hawke govt to keep the enrichment plant running so that they could develop technology for the surveillance of enrichment plants. They did in fact develop said tech, till the money ran out 3 years later. In the mean time and with the govt’s obvious knowledge, the enrichment plant was still in existence so that it could be monitored by the surveillance tech.
The bloke in question (Moore?) actually said “political reasons” a few times and “ideological” once, from memory. As was pointed out, the political reason was the avoidance of a regional nuclear arms race.
The big issue here is that we look like having an enrichment industry after the election if Howard wins. I take it America has said we’re allowed? And that Indonesia is now either hunky dory with that, or they’re allowed too? Despite all them Muslim terrists ‘n stuff? We better be bloody careful here.
If Indonesia decides they need an enrichment programme cause we’ve got one, what are we going to do? Invade to stop them? Not on our own mate. Will America have the ability to force them not to? For how long? Are we happy with a nuclear weapons capable Indonesia?
Gee I’m glad this is all being kept secret till after the election.
June 15th, 2007 at 4:01 pm
http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2007/s1951732.htm
Here’s the untidy link
June 15th, 2007 at 5:42 pm
The “boffin” mentioned has a right to be miffed. Nuclear science and engineering in Europe is world class - believe it or not have out classed the Americans until recently…
I’m sorry - am I supposed to be surprised by this? Heaven forbid that Europe outclass the US in anything…
June 15th, 2007 at 10:12 pm
Frank maybe you missed the point. These scientists were public servants … you know, employed by the government. According to most accepted theories of democratic governance, they either do what they’re told by their employer or they resign. They definitely don’t decide to surreptitiously defy the government because they disagree with its ideology. Well unless it’s a Labor Government, in which case it’s apparently OK.
June 15th, 2007 at 10:47 pm
Yes yes Ken & Floop, ignore Revenge of the Nerds up there and get your mind in the present and near future. Hawkie’s fine. At least one of those scientists is dead of old age.
And another is in business discussions with the current govt about an enrichment plant.
The questions the Hawke govt faced about non-proliferation still apply, now. If the answer is different I want to know why.
June 16th, 2007 at 12:12 am
‘Revenge of the Nerds’ lol … love it. At least he’s got an interesting job … AND he catches fish in the river that glow in the dark.
Back to topic … does anyone know where the Indos are getting the uranium for their new power station? I think the Russians are building it for them so presumably they’re also supplying the fuel but I can’t verify that.
Anyway they’ll probably build lots more in future and it’s too good a business opportunity to pass up, enriching uranium for ‘good’ Muslim nations. Well if we don’t, somebody else will, so that makes it OK.
June 16th, 2007 at 2:32 am
I felt the wind…& the sea…
I felt the very atoms that make me…
and I wondered
will I ever be free…?
there’s a space, i see it walk independant
chest thrust out
browned, pool diver, thrusts to the surface
i…i …i…
have you thought it out
have you claimed
have you……
in the dive
beyond the blue
voyager me…voyager you
hobson’s choice is the valley
of no choice
when you wrap the Light alive
in the engine down
little things, flashing around
sparking the lost imagination
have a drink my friend
in the moment of all moments
in my mind
your time
their history
her thought
the flash
and
WE WAKE!
N’…yea, i’m back…luv ya all.
June 16th, 2007 at 3:42 am
Imagine a race of people unknown to us who have the yearning to get HOME…the DIASPORA…and the WAY takes the TUNNEL…The WORM HOLE…the IMPLOSION…the BLACK HOLE or SINGULARITY run by the CIVILISATION that pisses on its Planet that uses its ENERGY w/out concern for its DIVERSITY…
WHY?
would
WE
SAVE
the
LUNG FISH?
when WE were already….
June 17th, 2007 at 1:05 pm
I saw the program and couldn’t get the image of Oppenheimer out of my head either.
The boffins concerned are no doubt nice family-types who just wanted to see if they could develop a workable Australian enrichment system. Like Oppie, they struck me as very clever people who seemed to have the same sort of unfortunate detatchment about the uses to which their little gizmo might be put, or what it might lead to, in the event they got it to work.
What they were doing was pure science. No doubt. And so it would have remained, at least until they succeeded and someone put their little toy to use.
Ok, so they weren’t figuring out new ways to build bombs, but so what?
It seems to me that the “peaceful” uses of atomic power are just about as deadly.
Anyone remember Chernobyl?
And now some of the same mini-Oppies are planning our very own enrichment industry. Possibly to supply fuel rods to a domestic nuclear power-generation industry that seems to be the current apple of the PM’s eye.
Great for the economy.
Not so good for you if you happen to live in Caboolture, or within 100Km or so downwind of it if something goes wrong.
June 17th, 2007 at 3:50 pm
Indeed, and isn’t interesting that Mr. Moidoch & friends bought the Fox Studios way back that produced ‘The Simpsons’…a show that used to show the dangers of radioactivity (the mutated fish) but over the years kinda held the Nuke Power Station up as one of the lifelines of the community…interesting.
Once you know who these moguls & politicians friends & family are & who owns which stocks & shares, you get a better understanding of what their motivations are…& the kind of sneaky campaigns they put together to promote their interests. These people think in the LONG TERM. It’s all SHOW ME THE MONEY!
but below the surface of their character & actions are strange determinants stemming from their religious, cultural upbringings…bizarre biases & even attitudes like preferring ’strong Mothers’ & ‘Matrons’ over ’scary Feminists’ & ‘career women’…:)…just like Marge who usually saves the day…& husbands are greedy dopes like Homer…& boys are sneaky & wicked like Bart, but survivalists w/ potential who should be tolerated for their antics…& vegetarian, independent girls like Lisa are wayward & must be kept in their place. Be interesting to see what propoganda will be served up in the ‘Simpson’s Movie’ for all & sundry to chew on & digest.
June 18th, 2007 at 9:45 pm
Caught this on UK’s The Independent Newspaper last night. It’s an interesting read:
‘UK Lumbered with Foreign Nuclear Waste’:
http://news.independent.co.uk/business/news/article2664296.ece
As is the article that accompanies it, probably more so.
June 19th, 2007 at 6:31 pm
[...] for Queensland. Gam and Tim are taking the reports seriously. Ken Lovell discusses the role of Lucas Heights scientists who are eager to resume work on the technology after Bob Hawke pulled the plug on it twenty years [...]