Blogocracy
Blogging - - Posted on November, 2 at 8:26 am by Tim
File this one under the heading of tales of the unexpected. I’ve occasionally wondered what difference it would make if a blog like this was available through the website of one of the major media organisations.
Well, we’re about to find out.
Starting next Monday, I’ve been asked to run a blog for News Ltd on their news.com.au site.
It will be called Blogocracy and it will be described on site as:
Rapid-fire commentary and discussion of politics, values and culture that doesn’t suck.
In other words, it will be pretty much what goes on here now, though with, hopefully, a few innovations.
There’s more to be said over the next few days, and obviously I’ll post a link once it’s ready. But I wanted to let readers here know about it as soon as I could.
I’m pretty excited about it, but I gotta say, I’m apprehensive too. (Still, lucky I’ve never said anything mean or critical about any News journalists, isn’t it?) I really hope all the readers and commenters here at Surfdom will come and check things out and cast their critical eyes over what happens. For it to work, it needs to build up the sort of sharp comments and readership that Surfdom has been lucky enough to get over the years, so I hope people will come and show them how it’s done.
As to Surfdom, well, it is not finished. Far from it. It will keep going and stay tuned for the details on that.
So that’s the news. I really want to know what you all think, so please avail yourselves of the comments section. Also, feel free to ask questions and I’ll respond there.
And yep, I’m still trying to get my head around this. Let’s see what happens.
Posted in Blogging |
November 2nd, 2006 at 9:00 am
Tim, you won’t catch me anywhere near News Ltd.
However, good luck.
Just a quick mention of
Brad Will…an independant filmmaker & gutsy dude who went to Oaxaca, Mexico to expose corruption & oppression by the Bush supported Government…he was shot & killed by a group apparently containing police. RIP Brad.
November 2nd, 2006 at 9:02 am
Congratulatons!
November 2nd, 2006 at 9:10 am
I’d congratulate you Tim, but to be honest I feel like we should be congratulating News more. Anyway, sure I’ll come and visit. Will there be some cash for comment though? Please?
November 2nd, 2006 at 9:38 am
Does this mean no more bagging Dennis “Election-Winning Margin” Shanahan? No more guffawing about “Labor Now Neck And Neck With Government” lead paragraphs? Is this the end of sarcastic sniggers at Paul Kelly’s double backflips with triple pikes? What will we do for fun when we can’t kick Greg Sheridan or Matt Price around anymore?
Do you think they’re hoping to get you inside the tent?
With reservations regarding the actual outcome, I offer my hearty congratulations, Tim. And I hope they pay you a fortune for your efforts.
November 2nd, 2006 at 9:38 am
Well done, Tim. Have you had any serious rules imposed on what you can discuss or how you discuss it? And can you avoid the current ‘blog’ method employed by Bolt and Akerman of answering every post - extolling the intellect of those who agree and labelling as a moron anyone who disagrees?
November 2nd, 2006 at 9:39 am
If you’re going to sleep with enemy Tim, keep one eye open.
It sounds like good news. Anything that gives air to new memes and ideas (or old ones that have been forgotten) in order to help ventilate the fug of our mainstream is welcome, though I have to say most media blogs seem to be ignored by surfers.
Goodonyermate
I’m not clear whether Blogocracy will simply draw material from Surfdom, or if it’s to be ’stand alone’. I assume it’s not just a pointer to Surfdom. One worry to flow from this is whether you will still be able to find the time to regularly feed the hungry menagerie you’ve assembled here.
If it is a different blog I would be interested too in whether you have to sign some sort of agreement that may limit comment in certain circumstances, or heaven forfend, agree to some editorial control. The strategery for dissent nowadays leans more toward co-opting threats than shooting them, but if anyone can resist such blandishments, I’m sure you can.
November 2nd, 2006 at 9:53 am
Thanks everyone. Just to pick up on a few points. It will be a stand alone blog, though at one stage they suggested that they just provide an ongoing link to Surfdom. I prefer to keep them separate. There have been no warnings, agreements, threats or anything at all about content. One suggestion I’ve made is that occasionally news journalists be given a guest spot on the site and I think that will happen. I hope so. One other thing I was pleasantly surprised about was the comments policy: I argued for it be as open as possible, with no registration required or other impediments, and it turned out I was pushing an open door.
My logic is for it to be a blog like this is a blog, with lots of links, especially to the oz blogosphere. But I think there will also be the opportunity to write some longer pieces too and take advantage of the mainstream position and do some interviews or whatever, the sort of thing that most people I have approached (like politicians) refuse to do for a mere blogger. In other words, I hope I’ll be able to do some extra stuff as well as what I do here.
But I think it will take me a little while to find my feet.
November 2nd, 2006 at 9:55 am
My old sparring chum Norm Gallagher used to say “If you lie down with dogs you get up with fleas.” So for god’s sake wear a collar Tim.
Seriously, good on ya. Murdoch’s showing numerous signs of scenting a change in the global political wind and maybe your appointment is a small part of it.
November 2nd, 2006 at 10:05 am
Congratulations! (I think!)
I’ll be watching with interest.
November 2nd, 2006 at 10:10 am
Judas!
(Heh. Not really. I just like the word.)
news.com.au has had the best blog-like features of any mainstream outlet for a while now. Good to see they’re going the whole hog.
November 2nd, 2006 at 10:16 am
I’m very pleased for you, and very pleased for all those people who’ve been reading opinion pieces by News writers rebadged as blogs who will now find out how the real thing works.
’sabout time.
November 2nd, 2006 at 10:19 am
This is unbelievable news. Yet another independent voice bites the dust in the service of trying to salvage what should be the totally discredited reputation of that media company.
Is it time to set up “blogocracy watch.com”?
We’ll still visit here - but won’t see you there.
Sorry Tim, simply a matter of principles.
November 2nd, 2006 at 10:29 am
Hmmn, are congratulations in order? Or just “Good luck and best wishes”? Or maybe “Lochiam!”
Like Ken said, Murdoch is sniffing a change. First he turned green, now this! Or maybe young Lachlan is behind this offer?
I hope you have read this lengthy insight into the mind of your new employer. And I hope (and trust) that you will keep the bastards honest, particularly in the Australian’s editorial department.
If you ever make it onto the board, say hello to Jose Maria Aznar. And if you make it all the way to the CATO institue, say hello to Phillip Morris. And if you find yourself in a lift with Janet Albrechtson, fart.
November 2nd, 2006 at 10:40 am
Just so you know the kind of company you’ll be keeping :-):
Followed shortly by:
I’m sure “We were wrong” will be the headline story tomorrow.
November 2nd, 2006 at 10:48 am
Exciting news, Tim. Best of luck with it. I’ll look with interest to see how it goes.
November 2nd, 2006 at 10:55 am
Wow. Good on you Tim. But I honestly cant think of this as a genuine partnership. It seems more like a struggle…hopefully not to the gory death…but your new blurb doesn’t give me a lot of hope
Now, im gonna hope that you didn’t personally coin that because to me it looks like nothing other than lame generation x and y propaganda (although maybe you’re trying to imply that all other news based politics blogs do suck. In which case points for quiet subversion.)
Co-option via market forces/incentives. That’s the way they get you! That’s how they killed punk originally and Road to Surfdom is punk, punk.
Clearly News is the powerful behemoth, probably going to get more powerful but you’ve got the net, or at least net-savviness on your side. You know I’m a big fan of ‘dialogue’ and working co-operatively towards solutions, but, well seriously, what will we be allowed to say if you manage to get Shanahan or Price on? Or if you’re referring to one of newseditorials or articles? What about fairfax stuff? Will they let you be attack dog? And I mean will they seriously be happy to link to some of the blogs of commenters here? The second post down at my blog is a perfect example of why they probably ought not (yeah ok, im an occassional blog-whore, but its totally relevant.) Actually i’m not sure News allow such links, but I cant check as all their major blogs seem to be down.
I’ll come and hang out, partly ‘cos I feel you’re gonna need all the help you can get, and I say that with the greatest respect for RTS. And btw, have you notice the cheeky effect you’re having on Hayeks legacy in Australia. I’ve regularly caught people, often strong sdherents of the fellow, citing his work as Road to Surfdom.
November 2nd, 2006 at 10:58 am
After an hour & a half of reflection I feel compelled to speak my mind further.
This blog was a wonderful gift you offered up to the people of Australia & outwards Tim. For that I thank you from the bottom of my heart.
I do believe that it must have been extremely effective in spreading alternative opinion for the Kingmaker & his News Ltd. cohorts to offer you a job.
It’s similar to them buying into the Sydney Morning Herald. Just another route. And not coincidentally a year or so out from the Federal Election…just as it begins to ramp up.
In the years I’ve watched the growth of News Ltd. & seen it spread like a virus across the globe, I realised that the owner is a megalomaniac who cannot accept competition for very long. He feels the need to control the dominant messages & capital that derives from it as much as possible.
I saw what he did to the print media in the UK when I was there from late 85 - 87…& how he used his growing influence to character assassinate, sue or buyout oppositional ideology & media…& how he molded the political sphere into puppet masters…the same as happened here & in the United States.
No man should ever have that power.
I observed the creation of Fox News…& the constant barrage of attacks on the Clintons, Gore & Kerry…not much has changed…except the Dems have much less power these days…& thanx to his enabling media we were dragged into a disgusting, wasteful FOSSIL FOOL age & a bogus war in Iraq that has led to the death of countless hundreds of thousands.
This same owner has supported the Howard regime thru thick & thin…w/ the odd BS debate between Howard & Costello…& occas. criticism to look slightly ‘fair & balanced’. Thanks to the efforts of him & the other mainstream media moguls in this Nation we now have a country totally under whelmed by corruption…drooling at celebs…distracted by the dumbest distraction techniques…caught up in a BS War…addicted to BIG CORPORATE food & cheap junk…FEAR-ridden & xenophobic beyond any BIG BROTHER advocates wildest dreams…& one of the most visionary places on Earth fumbling to deal w/ Global Warming.
Murdoch, similar to Howard, works on the ‘incremental change’ formula…& ‘if you have to win by going thru the back door as a chameleon, then go for it’ principle…but no surrender, no real change, old values promoted by new faces. Look at the state our Countries are presently in.
He is the great seducer. You must’ve been doing something effectively LEFT for him to want you on the RIGHT team.
You have my respect as a blogger….for now…hopefully he is looking for redemption & you can make a difference.
Be careful out there Tim.
N’…over & out.
November 2nd, 2006 at 11:05 am
Well done Tim. Let me suggest that in order to get you settled at News.com.au you should run a constant ABC bashing feature to cater to their audience. First entry idea:
For two consecutive days, The World Today and AM has featured prominently John Kerry’s troop joke. In fact, the Kerry joke was the only story relating to US midterm elections for the past two days on the current affairs programmes. Let me remind ABC producers that John Kerry is NOT a candidate in this election. He is not the leader of the Democratic Party. There are more important topics to report on the US congressional elections than a botched joke by a senator who is not up for re-election. How about this?
SUGAR LAND, Texas — President Bush said terrorists will win if Democrats win and impose their policies on Iraq, as he and Vice President Cheney escalated their rhetoric yesterday in an effort to turn out Republican voters in next week’s midterm elections.
The President of the United States accused more than half of American voters of siding with the terrorists, and ABC reporter spends her time discussing a bad joke. This reinforces News Ltd’s constant criticism that ABC is not fair and balanced as Foxnews.
November 2nd, 2006 at 11:19 am
Congratulations, Tim. As a long-time lurker here, I’ll be keen to check it out and watch you show ‘em how it’s done. Also keen to see the likes of Aussie Bob, Ken, Ghandhi, Aussie Sheila etc. get on board with their excellent contributions to the discussions.
Just hope it doesn’t turn into another one of those blogs where, anytime you post something that sticks it to the government or anyone else in your sights, it turns into a flaming war in the comments section. You know the type: rather than stick to the discussion and argue their point of view (because they have nuthin’!), the right-wingers will bring in their usual straw men and derail the discussion with the usual claptrap, thereby clogging up the comments with rubbish and deliberately disrupting and frustrating good discourse.
Don’t let them make you irrelevant.
November 2nd, 2006 at 11:30 am
Should be an interesting experiment. Good luck with it Tim. The MSM have not done a good job thus far of providing blogs in which the authors actually interact with the commenters. Maybe that will start to change.
November 2nd, 2006 at 11:37 am
Have fun!
And remember, once yer inside the tent, it\’s a lot easier to piss in the punch.
November 2nd, 2006 at 11:47 am
Tim, you should have a chat with Margo Kingston, who ran her Webdiary under the aegis of the SMH. She folded after a couple of years because, apparently, (a) she eventually ran out of tech support and money, and (b) she became terminally exhausted in moderating the comments.
I have enjoyed visiting this place because you have a level head and a good turn of phrase, and the roadies here all hate murdoch with a passion. And now you have been invited to join the dancing bears, sigh.
November 2nd, 2006 at 11:47 am
Into the belly of the beast for Big Media Tim!!
Congrats. I’ll be sure to stop by and raise a little hell. Least I could do.
November 2nd, 2006 at 11:49 am
Well I suppose it pays the bills.
…Don’t DO IT MAN , DON”T SELL OUT!!!!
November 2nd, 2006 at 11:58 am
Hope it works out the way you want, Tim. It must be encouraging to have your work recognised by the big boys.
That said, I suspect the level of informed debate will go south in a hurry…
November 2nd, 2006 at 12:15 pm
Great point Ed. I was thinking a similar, but by no means as eloquent thought, but I couldn’t stand to listen to the whole story. As soon as I hear the words Kim Landers…I know it will invariably be a hatchet job.
Congratulations Tim.
I share some of the reservations above, but if it gives these voices a wider audience, here’s hoping that it works.
November 2nd, 2006 at 12:18 pm
From the Fairfax press about a year ago:
Murdoch is forecasting US$1 billion profits from Internet business by 2010. He not only wants to profit from the Net, he wants to control the Net. Hopefull he will be dead before his plans can be realised (how old is he?) and his sad empire will be divied up by equity-mongers.
For now, I am afraid little Timmy Dunlop is just odour-producing fly-paper.
Per the comments above, it might be worth stating that I will NOT be visiting the News Ltd version of this blog, unless it is to congratulate Tim for sticking it to them.
Also worth asking the question: how come so many right-wing bloggers can afford to blog full-time? Hmmn?
Follow the money, Tim. But don’t actually follow the money!
To think own self be true.
November 2nd, 2006 at 12:42 pm
And watch those typos! Especially on the punch line!
November 2nd, 2006 at 12:50 pm
Tim could go to work for Jerry Falwell and I’d have to give him the benefit of the doubt, if y’all don’t respect him enough not to fold quicker than superman doing the ironing (line stolen from Liam) then what do you care for his opinion in the first place?
It’s a big company, the bloke who owns it does stuff which I don’t like. They employ some idiots to write for them. It weirds me out that people get so worked up over things like this, like they must have figured out a way to live an uncompromised, ideologically pure life which I have singuarly failed to do. Way too tainted to get on my high horse mostly. Give ‘em hell, Tim.
November 2nd, 2006 at 1:19 pm
Interesting days Tim, congrats, News needs an injection of real bloggers and you’re the man to do it.
November 2nd, 2006 at 1:40 pm
As far as Rupert Murdoch goes - look at it this way. He pays for Andrew Bolt. He pays for Faux News. But he also pays for The Simpsons (and did so back when it was at its peak).
Of course, the acid test comes when Murdoch himself becomes the story, as he all too often does. While I trust Tim’s integrity, there don’t seem to be too many News Limited journalists who are game enough to criticise their corporate parent. Presumably that’s not all because they think he’s an infalliable genius. I presume that’s an issue that Tim has considered himself, and wouldn’t be doing this if he didn’t think the issue manageable.
November 2nd, 2006 at 1:52 pm
Congratulations! But -
When you sup with the devil, use a long spoon
Christina http://www.antinuclearaustralia.com
November 2nd, 2006 at 2:02 pm
Well said, Amanda. You’d think Tim had signed up to eat babies or something.
If you don’t like what Tim does at blogocracy, you will have the opportunity to tell him. I’d suggest settling down until then.
November 2nd, 2006 at 2:08 pm
Congratulations Tim. I look forward to read some of your correspondents from this blog in the outside world.
November 2nd, 2006 at 3:03 pm
Congratulations Tim. I’m with Amanda.
Working on a Murdoch web site is about as impure as driving a VW, using MS Software, drinking Guinness or watching Dylan do a blistering Lovesick at the Emmys.
November 2nd, 2006 at 3:22 pm
Congrats Tim! Excellent stuff.
More commentary here:
http://larvatusprodeo.net/2006/11/02/surfing-the-news/
November 2nd, 2006 at 3:30 pm
Congrats and good luck. Will come and visit.
Keep the bastards honest - become the Don Chipp of blogging
November 2nd, 2006 at 3:37 pm
One thing that ruins MSM blogs including the ones on the ABC, Margo Kingston’s SMH blog etc. is that comments are moderated and you can wait hours for them to show up.
The reason personal blogs like RTS & LP are successful is the immediacy of the conversations. Just saying …
I hope you are happy & succeed but for me, I have never been able to be a regular visitor to MSM blogs, even good ones like Jack Marx in the SMH, because of the sheer volume of comments - who has the that much time in the day?
I am carrying on here a bit - to be honest I’m disappointed but hey … that’s life.
Good luck, Tim …
November 2nd, 2006 at 3:38 pm
Good stuff, Tim.
Is it your brief to be like Bolt & Piers on Insiders?
November 2nd, 2006 at 3:57 pm
No surely Tim isn’t to News Ltd what Bolt etc are to the ABC.
After all the News Ltd board isn’t stacked with lefties the last time I checked.
November 2nd, 2006 at 4:33 pm
Congratulations Tim
Long overdue.
November 2nd, 2006 at 4:50 pm
PollyTO, considering what Don Chipp’s efforts have finally come to, I don’t know if that’s an appropriate sentiment
November 2nd, 2006 at 5:26 pm
Good luck, Tim.
Just remember, war is liberation, occupation is pleasant, Bush is king, Howard is queen, Blair is important, the market rules ok, and climate change is really just something thought-up by bored lefty scientists.
Nothing ventured, nothing gained, as we said before…
November 2nd, 2006 at 5:34 pm
Tim,
You’re too good for this.
As my wife just said, doesn’t the defection of a quality blogger to the MSM completely undermine their original intent?
Not happy Tim, but good luck.
November 2nd, 2006 at 5:45 pm
Congrats, Tim. Go for it. If anyone can make this work in the MSM, and fairly, you can. (Not placing too much of a burden on you, am I?)
I will certainly visit the new blog, even if Rupert does own it. Apart from anything else, it should attract a wider range of readers and commentators. (No criticism of the RTS crowd implied in that.)
The only real cautions I would raise are that 1) you may have a time problem trying to keep both blogs up to scratch, and 2) editorial control. But I am sure you have covered this ground already.
Good luck negotiating with the big boys. (Get sound, independent legal advice.)
I look forward to the results of your new experiment.
November 2nd, 2006 at 6:09 pm
Thanks again to everyone for the comments and good wishes. On concerns about independence etc, my take is that, sure, it’s a concern, but what do you do? Do you give it a go or do you sit back and say it will never work so why bother? I thought I’d give it a go. Anyway, there’s plenty to think about and I reckon I might post on it at more length asap. I also wanted to mention that I think Andrew Bolt is very handsome.
November 2nd, 2006 at 6:41 pm
I also wanted to mention that I think Andrew Bolt is very handsome. Tim
Uh-oh, thin edge of the wedge. Next you’ll be wanting to shack up with him and bear his children. Mind you, Tim Bolt has a certain ring to it.
November 2nd, 2006 at 7:32 pm
Don’t listen to any bollocks, it’s bloody good news and thoroughly deserved.
November 2nd, 2006 at 7:44 pm
Fantastic, Tim. I hope this leads to a far greater audience for your blogging, which has been exceptional lately.
November 2nd, 2006 at 7:46 pm
Actually I’ve just read some of the negative comments here, and whereas Tim got the spot through talent, there isn’t one of you , especially the bloggers who wouldn’t drop their dacks, bend over the bonnet of a car, and yell “come on in Rupert” to cadge this gig.
November 2nd, 2006 at 7:49 pm
Congratulations Tim. You’ll bring an interesting voice to the News Ltd crew, and I’ll certainly drop in from time to time.
November 2nd, 2006 at 7:53 pm
So many here with so little faith.
Sticking to the principle of refusing to participate in a debate held in the opposition’s territory is all very admirable, but abandoning a like-minded, little Aussie digger, mate, battler, ordinary stralian, fellow man, pragmatic, sensible, commonsense bloke who, by the way, begs to disagree like Our Tim on the grounds of principles is unAustralian.
If we’re the hairy chested men and women we think we are we should be stampeding to support him in his new endeavour, flame for flame and uncivilised belch for uncivilised belch. We’re all capable of farting in elevators and as gandhi pointed out, we are sometimes under an obligation to do so.
Go Tim. Stick it to those bathwater drinking weirdos.
November 2nd, 2006 at 7:55 pm
Good on you, Tim, I look forward to it. Don’t be taking all this ‘If you’re not with us, you’re against us’ stuff in the comments too seriously.
And make sure they pay you properly.
November 2nd, 2006 at 8:10 pm
For all those who defend Tim’s moves full bore & criticise the rest of us who are disappointed & or cautious regarding the move….& even tho we still have mucho respect for him we felt the need to express a word of caution or reservations…I say TOO BAD!
Once again in Australia I see/read so called ‘critics’ & analysts & commentors selling necessary scepticism down the drain in order to fit into the ‘correct box’. Some to fit into the ‘clique’ group just like at High School…mooooo!!! No wonder this place is in such a mess.
Tim’s a good fella…but if him deciding to try & change the EVIL camp from the inside out means we all kneel, surrender our swords & shields…& fail to provide him w/ support combined w/a note of caution & some basic history & strategies…then we haven’t learnt anything.
Tim’s a warrior. Warriors get slain by powerful leaders & their armies. Hopefully this brave one won’t.
Remember, some Right-Wingers on this site are expressing their pleasure & glee at seeing Tim make this move…I wonder why?
As for me…I don’t comment to be liked or to fit in. Noone should. I comment to express independant views on topics whilst exercising FREEDOM OF SPEECH. Sending people I respect a word of caution is my way of saying…
Be prepared & Go safely into that dark night.
Like I said…good luck Tim.
November 2nd, 2006 at 8:41 pm
Andrew Landeryou wanted that gig Tim. he’s not going to be happy with you.
All the best mate!
November 2nd, 2006 at 8:43 pm
Stay brave and true, Tim.
November 2nd, 2006 at 8:50 pm
Good for you, bruvver.
We welcome you to the Dark Side.
In all seriousness, congratulations. Unlike their main competitor (at least in Melbourne) I think you’ll find enthusiasm there for all sorts of opinions, even lame-ass lefty ones like yours.
Game on.
November 2nd, 2006 at 8:59 pm
“Stay brave and true!” That Zoe is one naughty person.
But seriously, just grab the opportunity and make something of it. Until proven otherwise, it’s all to the good. You never know what’s going to happen unless you press the ‘go’ button. Good on you.
November 2nd, 2006 at 9:03 pm
If memory serves TD was a regular Webdiary commenter (ie: providing free content to ingratiate himself with staff of that well known MSM empire, Fairfax) before RTS was a twinkle in his eye. So reframe your view of Our Pure Protagonist, doomsayers — he’s just reverting to type!
In other words, well said Flutey.
November 2nd, 2006 at 9:16 pm
Congratulations Tim!
It worries me that one of the best sources of independent news analysis in Oz (ie you) is being merged with a media giant. Basically, it concerns me because it just further concentrates the Oz media market (and I mean all media, not just MSM).
On the whole though, I think it’s a good move. It gives you a much bigger voice and it puts you on the inside. Australia isn’t ready for the Kos or Wonkette or whatever, I guess Australian bloggers need to be accepted by the MSM to gain legitimacy. Who knows, maybe this will convince more Australians to quit the MSM and check out what else is out there?
November 2nd, 2006 at 9:19 pm
\”..find enthusiasm there for all sorts of opinions, even lame-ass lefty ones like yours.\”
As opposed to enthusiasm for broken-arse \”I was right, I was, really, LISTEN TO ME PLEASE!\” opinions like yours Andy L.?
Game over.
I don\’t know why some folks have a problem with Tim taking Rupert\’s coin.
a) It\’s one less dollar that could get spent on worse opinions;
b) The Murdoch Empire ain\’t carved in stone. It\’s evolving and changing eg: it\’s new found support for AGW and Hillary Clinton;
c) Rupe\’s gonna cark it soon anyway and then all bets are off as to the future direction of News Corp. Although \”bums on seats\” would always take priority. Never mind what you\’re telling the bums, just keep em in their seats;
d) so what if Tim does get co-opted. This shit runs both ways y\’know; and
e) there\’s gonna no shortage of people on DunlopWatch anyway. Not like he\’s gonna do a Bolter.
And what Fluteman said too. Hands up who wouldn\’t like someone paying you to use their very big megaphone?
Also Tim, if you\’re looking for good graphics to kick off each week, I know this sarky pommie photoshopping bastard in Sydney…
November 2nd, 2006 at 9:30 pm
I’m with Nabs. I’d take the coin in a second. I guess that destroys my Marxist street cred doesn’t it? I guess I’m gonna have to go and take down my Che posters and shave off my beard.
November 2nd, 2006 at 9:31 pm
Thanks for putting a word in Nabs. Good as signed then.
November 2nd, 2006 at 9:56 pm
An analogy/ history lesson to express how I saw Road to Surfdom’s stand against BIG media & the RISE OF THE CORPORATE FASCISTS:
In the Battle of Thermopylae of 480 BC an alliance of Greek city-states fought the invading Persian army in the mountain pass of Thermopylae. Vastly outnumbered, the Greeks held back the enemy in one of the most famous last stands of history. A small force led by King Leonidas of Sparta blocked the only road through which the massive army of Xerxes I could pass. After several days of confrontation, the Persians attacked but were defeated by heavy losses, disproportionate to those of the Greeks. This continued on the second day but on the third day of the battle, a local resident named Ephialtes betrayed the Greeks, revealing a mountain path that led behind the Greek lines. With the rest of the army dismissed, King Leonidas stayed behind, with his guard of 300 Spartans and 700 Thespian volunteers. Though they knew it meant their deaths, they allowed the rest of the Greeks to escape.
(source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Thermopylae)
I’m just a dumb Romantic I guess.
November 2nd, 2006 at 9:57 pm
Well I ‘m gonna miss him.
What do you think Mars, will he turn into a bed wetter?
November 2nd, 2006 at 10:12 pm
I love it. You can be to The Australian what Froomkin is to the Washington Post. There’ll be a Harris or two on your case in no time.
November 2nd, 2006 at 10:27 pm
Congratulations, Tim.
In recent months, yours has become the only Australian blogs that I think I have to read daily. There are lots of other high quality Oz blogs out there, as you would know, buty you’ve been able to consistently hit the targets that I find interesting.
I really think that if anyone has what it takes to make blog work at News Ltd, it’s you.
Good luck.
Kindest regards
Simon.
November 2nd, 2006 at 10:34 pm
Funny thing: As this thread has gone, it’s the ‘give him a break he knows what he’s doing’ voices which have become most shrill (funny ‘cos that message is the exact opposite of shrill.)
Tim asked for opinions. And if you go up the thread, virtually everyone has supported him ‘taking the coin’ and almost noone declared it either ‘us or them.’
But there’s a whole lot of unknown and fertile ground here and while I completely support Tim’s ‘you’ll never know…’ i don’treally buy this partof Nab’s logic
Does it? Well, i s’pose we’ll find out. But, it’s worth trying to figure out where the trapdoors are before you’ve fallen through one of the bastards.
November 2nd, 2006 at 11:05 pm
OK mG, maybe I was being a little shrill.
I think there are a lot of unanswered questions. I’d like to know how this new blog is going to deal with the standard problems of blogging: trolling, commenter identity, and the interaction between post author and commenters. As TIm alluded to above, Surfdom works in part because there is a nice community of people commenting here. It will be interesting to see if we’ll see more of the same when everything is amplified 100 times.
I think the big plus of this whole thing is that it might give some more credibility to the Australian blogging community. There is a lot of great political analysis going on in Ozplogistan but most people don’t see it.
Mark Bahnisch has pointed out on many occasions that the Australian blogging community doesn’t have the direct connection to the public that the American community does. The Daily Kos and other such websites have a huge amount of influence on their own, independent of the MSM. While at the same time these blogs help to shape the opinions that appear in the MSM. It seems that for a while now the opinion of Australian bloggers has been affecting the Australian MSM, but I’m not sure there much in the way of connection to the general public. Will Tim moving to The Oz change this? Maybe, at least it might give Tim a new platform to generate a larger audience. Maybe this will mean more people might discover other high-quality blogs (like LP or Quiggin’s)?
November 2nd, 2006 at 11:29 pm
Well, you’ll notice me trying to quietly backtrack a little too, Mick.
Well OK, say we treat this as a problem. What is the best way of solving it? Definitely, we should use every option at our disposal.
But it seems to me that the method under discussion (popular independent blogger picked up by MSM giant) is a fairly reactive one. That is, News Ltd came to Tim, who said, “OK, maybe we could all get something out of this.”
So what are some proactive ways of bridging the divide which might avoid, to some extent, problems of compromise and co-option? I dunno, maybe the US has some lessons. Someone will correct me im sure, but it seems like the big US political blogs have thrive whent hey are plugged into formal (if not party) politics. The netroots phenomenon etc.
Personally i’m not really keen on that approach either. So the ozblogozphere needs a calling card. How about trying to reach audiences in the real world? Some kind of weekly publication which could be found in Newsagents/Corner Stores. Funding would obviously be a problem.
Or maybe an electornic version. A weekly best of compendium which resembles more closely what consumers are used to (Magazines, Weekend Papers, even TV News reports.) I suppose a problem is deciding who would editorial responsibilities. LP (and others) sort of act like this,especially with the hyperlinking, but I reckon the format must still seem really foreign to a lot of people.
Just thinking out loud in the dead of night. Don’t mind me.
November 2nd, 2006 at 11:54 pm
Exactly…ladies & gentle men…we have been boarded…breached as they say.
Our courageous ship/starship has been stalled, divided…on every deck we see & hear the soundz of their occupation, the soundz of seduction…like a vampyr on the the threshold…inadvertantly Tim has invited IT…THEM in…like in the Exorcist we need the brave ones to EXORCISE this DEMON…but who is willing to be sacrificed?…as the VOICES seduce..for they are LEGION.
Some were attracted here…some volunteered…some felt they had no choice.
But we’re here now. And we know this bloody ship/site better than any other thanx to our good Captain Tim.
It was all the little things & the fun of difference that kept us together…it was the forgiving w/in the debate…the sense that we knew this ship, its demands, its madness, its search, its sense of ‘fairness’…& for better or worse…
WE have seen oceans of vision together…opportunities…this little vessel grew & grew…by our own hands & words & friendships & acknowledgement of each & every skill we watched, tripped over, laughed at…then learnt to respect.
We’ve been hit many times, occasionally broadsided…but we sailed on, knowing in our hearts where we had to go…& sometimes the sheer boredom, the repitition almost became too much…some silently slipped over the side.
But we never lost sight of trying to reach the NEW WORLD.
Today, we have been boarded.
We need a plan. We need courage. We need each other & every skill we have at our disposal.
Before we are LOST.
November 3rd, 2006 at 12:05 am
My concern isn’t about Tim as such…
It’s more of a impression that any blog linked to News Ltd will be the natural stamping ground for the vapid, the bigoted, the willfully misinformed and the Neanderthal types. A quick scan through the “Climate mufti” discussion will show what I mean. Once that mob get in the groove, debating based on facts goes out the window.
Into the Valley of the Trolls, Tim?
November 3rd, 2006 at 12:06 am
MG & others…I deeply respect your views…that’s why I came here…visited this strange land…ME…stranger in a strange land…took the risk…keep on thinkin’ out loud people. Keep on wondering in the dead of night.
This is OUR WORLD, the PLANET EARTH. And noone can take it away from us. If we have to adapt. So be it. Always question…always ask…never take anything for granted…but sometimes take the time…a timeout…be w/ the ones you love…& look out at the wonder, the majesty of it all…& smile…it’s yours, just for a short while.
See how those mountains touch the sky…shafts of light…explosions in the sky.
Then defend it…for those moments…for your loved ones…for the children who may never see the rebellion we made together…but will hopefully see the same animals we did…feed…walk…& think…& perhaps talk…& express love…in the time of the UPLIFT.
NP: Jeniferever: Choose a Bright Morning
November 3rd, 2006 at 12:13 am
I think someone should name a blog Valley of the Trolls, just sayin’.
November 3rd, 2006 at 12:16 am
Dunlop = Hitler.
November 3rd, 2006 at 12:19 am
Tim
Does that mean Bagdhad bob, and the other Hansonites are going national. Aren’t you just little embarrassed about the “regulars”.
Anyway good luck and hope you end up with a few moerating voices, if you know what I mean. After all accusing the Bushs of having Nazi party links could take things a little too far even for News Limited.
November 3rd, 2006 at 12:28 am
“As this thread has gone, it’s the ‘give him a break he knows what he’s doing’ voices which have become most shrill (funny ‘cos that message is the exact opposite of shrill.)”
I call this kinda move “emotional verbing.” How exactly can you tell the pitch and intonation of a commenter commenting from their written word alone? Especially since the arguements ventured here for Tim to do it employ logic much more than the arguements against.
“i don’treally buy this partof Nab’s logic
So what if Tim does get co-opted. This shit runs both ways y\’know;
Does it? Well, i s’pose we’ll find out. ”
Yes, why don’t we? The human race didn’t get this far by throwing our hands up everytime we encountered an automatic assumption.
“will be the natural stamping ground for the vapid, the bigoted, the willfully misinformed and the Neanderthal types.”
Only if you and others don’t take part. Don’t you trust the great Australian public to recognise truth well told?
Look, if you don’t like what Tim’s gonna do, then do yourself what you think he should have done instead. Nothing’s stopping you except your own automatic assumptions about what you can’t think you can personally do.
Disclaimer: I’m a blogcovert News Corp ninja who posts pics of strangled kittens online just to stay in practice.
November 3rd, 2006 at 12:36 am
By the way, if anyone from News Corp is reading this (and we now all know that you are) I am totally for hire. I have a PhD if that helps? I can even cope with trolls that use capitalization in their typing!
November 3rd, 2006 at 12:37 am
We know who you are Nabakov…& we know how your great mate in the NY skyline uses the domination of media to cooerce, construct fear & seduce…particularly ensuring that Govts. keep the PEOPLE so busy & exhausted & diverted ala ROME they can barely reach for the remote…& what would they find anyway eh?
November 3rd, 2006 at 12:46 am
“cooerce, construct fear & seduce”
Leave my private life out of this. Beside I swear she looked 18 years old.
Oh nasking, you have no idea who I really am and what I really do. And I bet you can’t dance either. Just that silly jig that fading middle-aged hipsters do to Fela Kuti mashups.
November 3rd, 2006 at 1:10 am
it is not beyond imagining Nabakov…nor the deliberate misspelling. But less assumption & more reading your many posts elsewhere:
Sherlock Holmes
buzzz…try again my Squamate friend…my heart lies beyond the hippy trend…to a tunnel that runs thruout the velvet underground…where all is neu…& loathe are we to abandon our friends to the day of the lords, the illuminati of the joy division.
November 3rd, 2006 at 1:40 am
Onyer Tim. I hope it’s rewarding for you, new corp and readers. Look forward to it.
November 3rd, 2006 at 6:06 am
While many of the New Ltd blogs are words from the Journalistic Gods, the range of comment to the positions is knowledgable and more politically diverse than on Road to Surfdom. I think that it will be a very different blog to this one, because of the wider readership.
November 3rd, 2006 at 8:02 am
Tim,
Sadly it appears that a lot of the regulars here are so far off to the left that the very thought of logging on to a News Ltd site is inconceivable, because unlike here at Surfdom, people might not hold the same views as them. A bit pathetic if you ask me.
Good luck mate, and be prepared for some real vigorous debate, from both sides this time instead of just one.
November 3rd, 2006 at 9:18 am
Should be an interesting ride. Best of Luck Mate!
November 3rd, 2006 at 9:33 am
Congratulations, Tim. Best of luck with it.
November 3rd, 2006 at 9:43 am
Come on Mr Nabakov. The written word conveys emotion. Ok, its not nearly as good as face to face and its very likely i misread the intentions of some, just as they misread the intentions of others.
And thats my point. There’s no real dispute here about whether Tim should do it (Nasking the romantic sort of excepted. I like the ship analogy best btw) Certainly none that allows Ben C to claim
But I could see how reading the last part of the thread one could get that impression. What there is, is a middle ground which says ‘What’s the smart way to approach this move as a blog community(ie: blogger and commenters.) It seems to me that this was what Tim was interested in at the start of the thread and thats what was given short shrift by some.
Anyway, Meh. No big whackadeal. I’m in complete support Tim’s experiment. But if he asks for constructive comments then i’ve got (hopefully) constructive comments.
November 3rd, 2006 at 9:47 am
Tim, as I said before I share some of the reservations above, and I think anyone who doesn’t have at least some misgivings hasn’t been paying attention for the last five years.
The main problem that I forsee is keeping two blogs going at the same time. Apart from the difficulty timewise, why would you need two blogs that are essentially doing the same thing? If the News Ltd blog is essentially the same as Surfdom, why maintain it?
One interesting solution that I suspect you may have already thought of is to use guest bloggers on a permanent or semi permanent basis either on this site or the new one.
Anyway I’ve enjoyed the ride so far (still remember the early days of clashing with Andjam, who seems much more reasonable in retrospect!) and look forwrad to the next chapter.
Incidentally, I have no problem logging on to a News Ltd site (saw a great Fox movie last week) but it gives me the shits when the comments of a couple of people whose views I respect become yet another excuse for those with an agenda like Ben G to slag off ‘the left’.
November 3rd, 2006 at 10:11 am
tim - I reckon the biggest problem you will have is technical / mechanical process.
Making sure comments get up quick - preferably in real time - yet are edited / filtered enough to stop the inane/spam/plain nutty/deliberate sabotage. It’s a hard one.
Also in big MSM blogs you lose the ability to block certain posters who don’t contribute to the flow - I don’t mean those you disagree with but those who interrupt the flow of a blog and comments and in my view should be blocked.
The other problem is the sheer volume of comments that can occur on these MSM sites. As far as I can see that is the biggest turnoff for a lot of readers and commentors. I don’t know what you do about that although the Slashdot thread structure (carried over from Usenet)works to some extent to moderate and catergorise volume on threads but allow participation.
The big positive is that you are about the only blogger around who doesn’t need to be slapped around regularly over musical taste. Although, me, amanda, shaun and others will be watching you.
November 3rd, 2006 at 10:34 am
A few more responses. Adrian writes:
The main problem that I forsee is keeping two blogs going at the same time. Apart from the difficulty timewise, why would you need two blogs that are essentially doing the same thing? If the News Ltd blog is essentially the same as Surfdom, why maintain it?
One interesting solution that I suspect you may have already thought of is to use guest bloggers on a permanent or semi permanent basis either on this site or the new one.
It will be a bit tricky, but it’s surprising how many other bloggers do it. But yeah, there will be some guest bloggers helping out here, which I’m really pleased about. The main reason for keeping Surfdom going is, well, it’s pretty well established and it seems a shame to close it. Also - I might need it!
The most interesting issue raised, I think, is about managing comments. It seems there is a real consensus to keep them under control in terms of number and content. Certainly this was an issue with News, but as I say, they are keen to be as open as possible (legal problems being the main concern). So there won’t be any registration needed and they will appear in real time. But yeah, getting the balance right is going to be hard. So I’m still thinking about it, will no doubt learn as I go along, and open to any further suggestions on the topic.
November 3rd, 2006 at 10:46 am
Will we be allowed to use words like “poos”?
November 3rd, 2006 at 11:05 am
I think concerns about Tim’s future editorial direction at News are misguided. After all, the bottomline for News.com.au is to expand their internet traffic and to make money out of it. Obviously Tim as a well established left leaning blogger will bring a wider audience to News. But who would want to read a lite version of Andrew Bolt when you have the real one? Doesn’t make business sense. I always suspect the success of Foxnews is an attribute less to Murdoch’s ideology but more to his shrewd business acumen to identify a niche in the US media market.
November 3rd, 2006 at 11:18 am
Having a whole bunch of threads going at the same time (as often happens here) - some based simply on links - is one way of approaching the volume issue.
Seems to me, that most News and Fairfax blogs work via the traditional op-ed m.o. That is, create a piece which will push all the right buttons and watch them all write passionate letters (or comments) in strong disagreement or agreement. And so quantity is valued over quality. If you have a number of threads which are more circumspect,then you’ll probably cut off a lot of the genuine trolls before they get started.
But that’s not really rts style is it? I guess another option is to provoke a free for all and have chaos for a while until some more traditional blog conventions ar established (ie: people don’t comment if they know they will simply get torn apart, people become sensitive to their online reputations etc) Even if certain things end up being out of bounds (especially as the election gets closer,) bringing the real author-commenter relationship to the msms, would be a valuable and probably long-lasting contribution.
November 3rd, 2006 at 12:34 pm
and so it begins….
November 3rd, 2006 at 12:40 pm
I just meant commenters here seem to prefer a system that isn’t a free for all like a lot of mainstream sites become. So not to have to wade thru 100s of abusive and off-topic comments.
How did you understand what people have been saying?
November 3rd, 2006 at 1:49 pm
got ya…thought you might feel under pressure running 2 blogs (as mentioned aptly by others) & resort to using guest moderators who apply a formula wherein postees could only comment once or such…or if enuff Far Right-wingers complained certain postees would be banned or censored.
I’m just worried that our Mr. Murdoch & his team will keep you so caught up w/ distractions & bureaucracy & seduction techniques that it will undermine the value of this wonderful & effective blog…my mates & wife who visit/lurk now & then reckon it’s the ‘bee’s knees’ of Aussie blogs. Let’s face it…yer topic titles are to die for…& you have a knack for pounding away at key issues of the day..got the Coalition & cohorts a wee bi